Comments on: Three Views of Recovery

By: McGowdog

McGowdog — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:35:32 +0000

Thanks Jimimac. I hope it doesn’t get any better or I’m going to feel bad for those who are stuck feeling crappy and are more deserving. Let’s spread the wealth huh?

By: Jimimac

Jimimac — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 19:56:36 +0000

Congrats on another year sober McGowDog ! Keep coming, it gets better !

By: McGowdog

McGowdog — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 08:03:43 +0000

It’s good to know what sanity is.

I don’t want booze today and I don’t have to avoid temptation.

8 years and counting. Not going for the record here, but it’s been a pretty big deal for me given my past.

By: Jeff Dakus

Jeff Dakus — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:26:39 +0000

Ok. So this is a fantastic article. Lots to think about. I sure am glad the BB says we have no monopoly on this thing. I just know that as a thumper I found and carry the message wich retuned me to sanity.

By: McGowdog

McGowdog — Fri, 27 May 2011 04:00:13 +0000

I belong to a group that does steps yearly. We only chair meetings on our current experience on the steps, so anything from pg 164 and prior is fair game. We recognize the 12 traditions in their long form. No 12 x 12, no stories in the back. Our trusted servants aren’t trusted anymore. Ef world-services. F the gso. F middle of the road A.A. If that’s what you want, good day and good luck.

By: DW

DW — Mon, 23 May 2011 14:36:54 +0000

This article strikes me as a pretty good description, in broad terms, of the the three ways in AA today. Leaving aside the Psychological one, it strikes me that the Conversion one and the Resocialization both have strengths and weaknesses.
The Conversion one seems to tend toward producing “spiritual arrogance” and talking down to the alcoholic, as well in extreme forms, accepting only the BB or the first part of the BB (excluding even the Appendix on spiritual experience), which says the General Conference decisions are to be ignored. This violates traditions since General Conference approves literature other than the BB. But some sort of conversion is the core of the 12 step experience and it is right about that. The Resocialization party downplays or ignores the spiritual awakening and often the steps themselves. This is its weakness. But its strength is the everyday love and support of the fellowship and a sort of humility. I see no reason, in principle, why these can’t be combined, and the principles of God as you understand him and Live and Let Live seem to point to that. Combined without their weaknesses. Let me suggest, and it has been my experience, that working the steps and getting to know a Higher Power and sharing one’s weaknesses and vulnerabilities (not the same as complaining about everyday events)with others in and out of the rooms, in other words, honesty not spiritual arrogance or pretending everything is alright, is one way that works. HP can exist in that sharing, in the real love between members of AA, as well as in other ways.
One other personal point, the Conversion school seems to resemble certain types of fundamentalist Protestant Christianity in its tone and attitude, which as a Catholic I find problematic. My spirituality remains, at some level, a Catholic one, although I would never impose that on others in the fellowship.

By: mcgowdog

mcgowdog — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:10:52 +0000

If they want to be atheist or agnostic, so be it. It’s better to be an integris atheist than a non-integris believer.

If going straight to God can get you sober, then do it. If not believing in God and going straight to enlightenment can get you sober (which it most certainly would), then do it.

Jesus didn’t speak of a path to enlightenment and cleaning your karma because it would be in bad taste to deny a person their suffering and animalistic instincts when they serve a purpose as well.

To remove the notion of a God transcendent and seek purely the God immanent is another path that some have done great with.

Then some religious bastard comes along and condemns you to hell and pisses in everybody’s wheaties.

Hey, it’s better to start a spiritual exercise with a question, not an answer. Maybe there is a God. Maybe there isn’t. God tis or taint. Choose one and act accordingly.

The goal is a useful life and sobriety is the result.

If you can do it without God, that’s fantastic! Do it!

By: Travis

Travis — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 04:22:28 +0000

Cool. You can call it whatever you want. I happen to call that God. There are many Agnostics out there that describe God all the time and just call it something else. Label it whatever you want. What some people call scientific reason, I call God. We’re talking ab out the same thing. We just have differences in definitions. I had lots of spiritual experiences years before I knew what one was. That doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. Glad you’re sober. Help someone else.

By: McGowdog

McGowdog — Wed, 06 Oct 2010 04:06:16 +0000

I’m sober in A.A. and I try to help the suffering alcoholic. That might be the new man who comes walking in the door or it may be the old bleeding deacon/elderstatesman who’s lost his faith. If there are folks suffering in your group, you need look no further for someone to offer help to.

In my group, we do steps yearly and that’s the way we do it. I don’t need no damned sponsor to brow beat me today. All I need is a path to God and an open enough mind to walk down it.

By: Jimimac

Jimimac — Wed, 06 Oct 2010 02:52:34 +0000

McGowdog:
Having read the lenthy previous posts more closely, I think I may have misunderstood your last point. If so, I apologise.
Were you repeating an antiXAer, whatever that complicated BS is ?
Or do you believe AA takes advantage of sick impressionable drunks to sell Big Books ect. ? My statement applies to that thinking.
Thanks