Comments for Stepstudy.org

Comment on 1953 NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS by ChubDaddy Cowles

ChubDaddy Cowles — Wed, 22 May 2013 07:49:59 +0000

CORRECTION TO MY ABOVE COMMENT: The last personal story in the 5th Edition of the NA Basic Text lays out how one may work an atheist 12 Step program of recovery. I inadvertently said “agnostic”.

Comment on 1953 NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS by ChubDaddy Cowles

ChubDaddy Cowles — Wed, 22 May 2013 07:46:24 +0000

I have not read all of the comments. I started out in NA and at a time was what might be called an “NA Nazi”: “NA is the only way, do not breathe a word of AA, sober, etc”. I was amazed when my late sponsor (who was hard-core NA and not an AA member to my knowledge) told me to read the Big Book when I started asking questions about NA’s history. Today I am a member of NA. I go to AA when I need a meeting an NA is not available. I consider myself a member of AA. In my opinion, it is impossible to know our (NA) history and not have a deep love, respect, and appreciation for AA. Many of our founders (Jimmy K in particular) were members of AA. They had recovered (were recovering if you prefer) through AA and recognized many addicts needed to identify at the level of apparent symptoms in their early recovery. AA and NA cooperate (loosely and unofficially) but neither endorse not oppose one another out of respect for, and in order to preserve our Traditions.

This analysis is simply an analysis of the social approaches to and interpretations of step work in our respective literature.

I am NOT a “dual” because alcohol is a drug. I NEVER introduce myself as an alcoholic-addict (or vice-versa) . In NA I am a clean addict because alcohol is a drug. In AA I am a sober alcoholic because I can’t be sober and use drugs.

The Twelve Steps ARE THE TWELVE STEPS in both AA and NA. NA does not prescribe one, single way to do a Fourth Step (nor does AA); all that is required is that you take an honest moral inventory.

All that being said (at least in the meetings I have attended around the Western United States) AA tends to be a bit more pious than NA both socially, and in regard to literature. Examples of this are AA’s chapter to the agnostic (We Agnostics) which advocates an acceptance of a divine HP, as opposed to the last personal story in the 5th Edition of the NA Basic Text which details how one may work an agnostic program, complete with the “God Steps”, replacing God with the NA group or group conscience. There are also numerous examples of this approach throughout the White Booklet, Basic Text, and Just for Today.

NA does not take a “less spiritual” approach; rather a “less pious” approach. NA is a spiritual program, even from an atheist or agnostic approach. (Yes, many atheists and agnostics in recovery define spirituality as being balanced or in touch with a higher self, etc. We don’t need a debate on that.) The atheist approach is also extremely rare in NA, but is acceptable by the NA literature.

Let us not forget that both the Big Book and Basic Text present SUGGESTIONS to recovery.

Long story short, if you consider yourself a dual, I don’t feel sorry for you. Do what works as long as it keeps you clean or sober (depending on the language of your particular fellowship).

I would submit that if the “NA Fourth Step” makes you feel worse, try a different Fourth Step. (Back in the Day MANY of us in NA did the AA Fourth Step. There was a time when AA literature was actually used.)

Do what works. If any of us have a need to bash “the other fellowship” from our various perspectives perhaps we are in need of some Fourth or Tenth Step work!

Much Love,

ChubDaddy

Comment on 1953 NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS by Diane

Diane — Sat, 18 May 2013 00:30:26 +0000

this is horrible! No understanding of the NA program at all. Our solution is spiritual in nature we gain a spiritual understanding of the steps. we are a spiritual not religous program. ourbasic text states that through the developement of a concious contact with God no addict need die without a chance to find a better way of life

Comment on 1952 TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS PUBLISHED by Mark S

Mark S — Tue, 14 May 2013 12:59:37 +0000

The 12 and 12 expands on the BB, those how don’t like it appear to enjoy wiggle room for their own interpretation which the BB can allow. I have been sober for almost 29 yrs and it has been by going to step meetings and living the AA way of life. God has blessed me in every area, thanks to this spiritual kindergarten. I know more long time AAs reflecting a program of attraction that regularily attend 12 step mtgs than any other format. However anyone can do what they are doing and they will keep getting what they are getting.

Comment on 1953 NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS by Daniel Bombard

Daniel Bombard — Fri, 10 May 2013 22:17:02 +0000

Athena, have you ever considered that had you not gone to NA or AA, that perhaps you wouldn’t have the luxury of being clean now? Maybe (as suggested here) you are not an addict, however you are not using drugs and somehow that makes it “all bullshit”? All I can say is wow.

Comment on 1953 NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS by Daniel Bombard

Daniel Bombard — Fri, 10 May 2013 21:54:51 +0000

Again UTTER RUBBISH! This is utter rubbish. Either you are putting way too much emphasis on your meetings, or you are not paying attention. Whether you are in AA or NA, the program is not in the meetings, the program is in the book/literature and what you do with your sponsor. Any of you that have not figured that out yet, no wonder you are feeling hopeless and feel like dying. It has nothing to do with whether it is NA or AA, it is whether you are participating in the program (not the meeting) to the same extent that you used to participate in the getting and using of either alcohol or drugs! Get over yourselves and start working THE program not YOUR program!

Comment on 1953 NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS by Daniel Bombard

Daniel Bombard — Fri, 10 May 2013 21:53:13 +0000

This is utter rubbish. Either you are putting way too much emphasis on your meetings, or you are not paying attention. Whether you are in AA or NA, the program is not in the meetings, the program is in the book/literature and what you do with your sponsor. Any of you that have not figured that out yet, no wonder you are feeling hopeless and feel like dying. It has nothing to do with whether it is NA or AA, it is whether you are participating in the program (not the meeting) to the same extent that you used to participate in the getting and using of either alcohol or drugs! Get over yourselves and start working THE program not YOUR program!

Comment on 1953 NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS by david r

david r — Wed, 01 May 2013 21:31:26 +0000

If alcohol is a drug (and it is!) how can you conceder yourself to be duel addicted. A drug is a drug.

Comment on 1953 NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS by TOMMY WILLIAMS

TOMMY WILLIAMS — Wed, 27 Mar 2013 02:36:50 +0000

NA/AA/CHURCH GOD HAS HIS HANDS EVERY WHERE !!! WE SHOULD JUST BE THANKFUL WE HAVE SOME WHERE TO GO TOO FIND A NEW WAY TO LIVE !!! THESE ALL ARE GOD SENT FELLOWSHIPS WHICH PROVIDES US INFORMATION ON HOW TO FIND NEW SOLUTIONS TO OUR PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF USING MOOD MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES !!! ITS ABOUT RECOVERY !!! WHEN YOU TALK DOWN ON A GOD SENT FELLOWSHIP : WHO ARE YOU REALLY TALKING DOWN ON???!!! GET A SPONSOR OR SPIRITUAL ADVISER WITH EXPERIENCE STRENGTH AND HOPE !!! I PRAY YOU FIND RECOVERY !!! IF NOBODY HAS TOLD YOU THAT THEY LOVE TODAY I JUST WANT TO SAY ” I LOVE YOU” !!! THANKS FOR LETTING ME SHARE MY ESH !!! TOMMY W GREAT X !!!

Comment on BIG BOOK THEOLOGY: “We Agnostics” and William James (By James R.) by Augustine

Augustine — Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:36:23 +0000

Hi Michael, I do believe in a Higher Power. Alcohol is a higher power than me, so is resentment, fear, anxiety self pity. In AA I saw folk who were like me, NOW THEY ARE SERENE. Like the Detective Columbo in the TV show, this put me thinking. I read all the self help books ( I nearly needed Shelf Help with my self help books!!!) This was an accumulation of more information! A man said to me YOU CANNOT THINK YOURSELF INTO RIGHT LIVING, BUT YOU CAN LIVE YOURSELF INTO RIGHT THINKING!!! I had information of 12 recovery from AA literature, so I set about PRACTISING it and then after step 9 I experienced the Promises of AA (page 83 B.B) because I lived myself into right thinking through the practice of the 12 steps.
AA is a power greater than me, so is the AA group. I resigned from the debating society ( debate is useful) but DEBATE in itself it did not give me the POWER to use the steps and thus get a new and wonderful way of life.
Thanks for your sharing Michael, God bless you and yours.